Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound

  



Guitar amp 6sn7 sound effects

Boutique amp enthusiasts will probably like this feature since the 6SN7 tubes are older and may have more of a vintage amp sound. Fortunately, the 6SN7 is still easy to acquire. This amp has been 'tuned' for good sound, the bias settings of all of the tube stages were tweaked while a guitar was plugged in. Sound King 300B tube guitar amp The Sound King is a super responsive and lively guitar tube amplifier with the natural presence and musical resonance of an acoustic instrument. The pure joy of experiencing the electric guitar in this way is enhanced by an unusual range of clean and distorted sounds. To this end, I am thinking of an amp using a 6U8A pentode/triode that feeds a 6SN7 output stage. The pentode will have a fair amount of gain (much more than the usual triode stage) and accept feedback on the cathode. The triode will directly couple to the pentode amplifier stage and act as a phase splitter. The 6SN7s are a push-pull stage.

Gale & sea king outboard motor parts manual 1963 Chrysler 1966 1967 outboard 6 & 9.2 HP also sea king Sea King 3.5hp-55hp Outboard Motor 1970-1984 Full Service & Repair Manual PDF Download. 1963 sea king outboard motor manual 9 9.

Page 1 of 2
[ 12 posts ] Go to page1, 2Next
Print viewPrevious topic | Next topic
AuthorMessage
Posted: 01 Oct 2013, 22:12

Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 22:07
Posts: 352
Hi all,
I'm proposing an idea so people can comment on it and I can gain some perspective. I may end up building this amplifier.
Audiophiles like 6SN7s. They also seem to like low-power triode amplifiers. The idea here is that, because the power is so low, less amplification has to happen before the speakers are driven. Then the listener relies on super-efficient speakers so the 3 watt amplifier sounds like a 50 watt transistor amplifier driving cheap speakers.
To this end, I am thinking of an amp using a 6U8A pentode/triode that feeds a 6SN7 output stage. The pentode will have a fair amount of gain (much more than the usual triode stage) and accept feedback on the cathode. The triode will directly couple to the pentode amplifier stage and act as a phase splitter. The 6SN7s are a push-pull stage. With 350v on the plates I could probably get 3 watts from the output stage. The triodes would work with fixed bias, allowing for a higher level of output power that possibly hinges on 5 watts per channel. Again, I don't need a lot of power.
Thanks for your input.
Ed

_________________

You can't have too much heat sink.


Top
Posted: 02 Oct 2013, 07:53

Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 10:13
Posts: 146
Location: PA
A 6sn7 can take 500V B+ on the plates with no prolbem. Afther all it was used for a vertical output tube in 1940's TV sets.


Top
Posted: 02 Oct 2013, 15:48
Project Author

Joined: 04 Jun 2008, 20:59
Posts: 4285
Location: Arizona, USA
Hi, It would probably work, but my sense is that you will be lucky to get more than 1-2 watts clean out of it. Still a worthy project. For triode based power amp stages I usually figure that they can not really deliver more than about 30% of their max dissipation rating. The 6SN7 (both triodes operating) can only dissipate 7.5 watts. At max output the distortion will typically be about 10%. Backing it down to about 75-80% of max will usually yield a much nicer sounding amp. PP with fixed bias is probably the way to go. I would probably design it with a CCS in the cathodes. Just personal preference. Even then I might put about 5-6 volts on the grids to overcome the minimum voltage needed by the CCS to function best.
Good listening
Bruce

_________________
Some of my DIY Tube Amplifier Projects:


Top
Posted: 03 Oct 2013, 01:09

Joined: 08 Aug 2009, 03:11
Posts: 2229
Location: Chilliwack, BC
A 6sn7 can take 500V B+ on the plates with no prolbem. Afther all it was used for a vertical output tube in 1940's TV sets.

Yep!
I use them as drivers for audio amps using transmitter output tubes. Use 600V on one 845 and it's lived three years same set of tubes!

_________________
-= Gregg =-
* Ratings are for transistors - tubes have guidelines*
Home: GeeK ZonE
Work: Classic Valve Design


Top
Posted: 03 Oct 2013, 17:29

Joined: 27 Jun 2011, 10:13
Posts: 146
Location: PA
I use 6SN7's in my 813 PP amps and have used them in my 211 PP amp with 550 on the paltes and they have lasted for years no prolbem.


Top
Posted: 05 Oct 2013, 01:41

Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 22:07
Posts: 352
I'm still working on the design. Here's what I'm thinking..get a 10 watt OPT that's meant for 6V6s and run two 6SN7s per channel in a push-pull parallel set up. That would give roughly the right impedance for the plates, plus the tubes could shove more power. I'd have a 6CG7 to amplify the signal right from the input jack and feed the volume control. This stage would be outside the normal feedback loop and ideally have a low gain, like 5. It would feed the volume control and the 6U8A pentode, which would be inside the feedback loop. For the OPT, I'm thinking something like an Edcor GXPP 10K-8. I don't like putting CCSs in tube amplifiers unless they themselves are made with tubes. It's a big tube world out there and you may do what you like, this is just what I like to do.
Ed

_________________

You can't have too much heat sink.


Top
Posted: 09 Oct 2013, 14:05
Project Author

Joined: 06 Jun 2008, 18:23
Posts: 5310
Location: Australia

_________________
Projects: 'Carbon” - MM phono preamp | 180W RAW Class D amp | 'Illusion' - 6SN7 SRPP preamp in a plastic jiffy box | “Salt Cellar” - Mono 807 triode integrated amp |


Top
Posted: 09 Oct 2013, 14:13
Project Author

Joined: 04 Jun 2008, 20:59
Posts: 4285
Location: Arizona, USA
Hi, All pretty much standard except for the 6CG7. Why that particular tube, particularly since they are getting costly. A 12AU7 might be a better choice. 6CG7s make pretty good drivers if you need current, but as a voltage amplifier they may introduce more noise because of the higher idle current needed to stay on the best part of the gain curves.
Good listening
Bruce

_________________
Some of my DIY Tube Amplifier Projects:


Top
Posted: 09 Oct 2013, 14:48

Joined: 02 Mar 2009, 12:41
Posts: 1111
Location: Vänersborg, Sweden
I think the Firefly is based on 6SN7, but that could be a guitar amp.
Else I have ideas for a 6SN7-SE using parallelled 6SN7s:
http://www.hififorum.nu/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=89277

_________________
Magnus
“If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.”
―Lewis Carroll


Top
Posted: 10 Nov 2013, 03:39

Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 22:07
Posts: 352
Gents,
In a few months, I should be at a point where I can go forward with this. I don't have a schematic but I can describe it to you. Those of you who know what a push-pull amplifier looks like will have no problem visualizing it. Those of you who don't can look it up.
Stage 1: a triode preamplifier. Most likely a 6N2P or 6922 triode, one per channel.
Stage 2: a volume control. Potentiometer. 100K or 500K, depending on what I have.
Stage 3: a pentode voltage amplifier, accepting negative feedback. A 6U8A
Stage 4: a triode, split-load phase splitter. A 6U8A.
Stage 5: a triode push-pull stage, 6SN7. One entire tube per channel.
For now, I'm intending to use a Hammond 269JX per channel, ensuring I can bias my output stage rather hot and not have any problem with output. The feedback is for the purpose of taking the higher gain and turning it down into something more usable, while removing distortion caused by the tube stages. I also got some 70v 10w line transformers ($3 each) that will be the output transformers. I'll use the 0.625w and common taps to touch the plates and use the 2.5w tap for B+. I'll also double the impedance of the speakers used on the output, meaning I'll get 16K ohms, plate to plate, instead of 8K. The 6SN7 likes higher impedance.
No telling when I'll start this project.
Ed

_________________

You can't have too much heat sink.


Top
Page 1 of 2
[ 12 posts ] Go to page1, 2Next

What’s the secret behind amazing guitar tone? Great fretboard skills, the best guitar and amp your budget allows, a cathode follower… Wait a second! A cathode follower? What’s that? And how does it make me sound better? Good questions, all of them. Now read on to find out more about this understated little piece of technology that’s hidden in many of the best guitar amps ever made, and to learn how its presence can make the difference between good tone and great tone…

“The biggest change from the previous models is not something you can see… but you sure can hear it!” said Rüdiger Forse, Hughes & Kettner’s Senior Product Manager, in an interview about the TubeMeister Deluxe 20 and 40 models at the 2016 NAMM show in Anaheim, California.

With this cryptic statement, he was alluding to these new amps’ fundamental sound. And he was right; these new models don’t just rehash an old formula.

There’s something fundamentally different about their tone.

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound

One could say it’s more direct yet airier, warmer yet more assertive, beefier yet with bell-like chime. But whatever descriptive adjectives you want to use, TubeMeister Deluxe definitely serves up a refreshingly different flavor of sound.

And one of the main reasons why it ladles out such tasty tone is a much-loved and often talked about amplifier circuit called a cathode follower.

A cathode follower?

Although it’s a classic tube-driven circuit, a cathode follower never featured in the smaller TubeMeister 18 amp – but the TubeMeister Deluxe 20 changes all that.

This was evidently newsworthy: the NAMM show had been underway for just a few short hours, but word had already gotten out about this venerable circuit’s inclusion in a very modern amp.

TubeMeister Deluxe and the cathode follower under the watchful eye of the world’s media at the 2016 NAMM Show in Anaheim, California.

Ask vintage amp enthusiasts about the cathode follower at your own peril. Many will get a little gleam of love in their eyes, and start gushing about how it’s the pack mule among tube circuits, with a mean kick that’s perfect for driving tone stacks.

Ask them to elaborate, and you’ll hear more than you ever wanted to know about less-than-unity gain, output impedance generally reciprocating transconductance, degenerative feedback, and a power supply rejection ratio somewhere around the inverse of the mu.

Sound

That’s interesting and all, but… er, what the hell does all that technical stuff actually mean?

What is this legendary cathode follower, and – most importantly – how does it make our guitar tone better?

The technical details

To put it (almost) simply, a cathode follower is an impedance conversion stage within an amplifier circuit that transforms a high-impedance signal into a low-impedance signal.

The latter is less susceptible to interference and can have a beneficial effect on tone. The explanation for this has to do with sine waves, synched oscillations and overtones, but we’ll spare you the details.

It takes a fairly firm grasp of electrical engineering to understand the intricacies of the theory behind the cathode follower.

For our purposes here today, suffice it to say that not every preamp circuit under the sun stands to benefit from an added cathode follower.

The screen on this oscilloscope reveals one of the cathode follower’s tonal secrets! The upper half of the wave represents distortion, while the lower part stays half clean. This mixture of clean and distorted sounds represents the typical flavor – pure attack and dynamic response mixed with a delicious creaminess – of a cathode follower-endowed amp.

It’s a wise choice for some guitar amps, and a no-go for others. So how do we know when it’s a viable option? There’s only one standard to go by: tone is the measure of all things.

Do all amps have cathode followers?

There are plenty of examples of great amplifiers that do not feature a cathode follower.

Other amps have it both ways, with one channel that works with a cathode follower and another that does without. The Hughes & Kettner Coreblade, for instance, uses a cathode follower circuit to conjure clean tone, but the circuit’s role in shaping distorted sounds is limited.

Cathode follower = classic tones

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound System

Cathode follower circuits are said to lend the tone a special flavor, as a number of classic guitar amps would go to show.

A lot of this is down to the harmonics, generated by the cathode follower stage, that enrich the output signal. Early Fender Bassmans, the Marshall JTM and several Vox amps were all equipped with a variation on the cathode follower theme.

Although each amp maker used a somewhat different design or placement within the circuit, its presence certainly shaped the tone of these amps – and by extension, our perceptions of what rock ‘n’ roll guitar sounds like.

A Deluxe brown sound

In the TubeMeister Deluxe 20 and 40, the cathode follower stage is largely responsible for shaping the brown sound, as this most popular flavor of tone has come to be known.

TubeMeister Deluxe’s take on this tone is based on the tone of the TriAmp Mark 3‘s channel 2B, which in turn was inspired by the sound of a hot-rodded Marshall.

The Hughes & Kettner TriAmp Mark 3 (and a rather fine Gibson Les Paul) in all their glory. Guitar fans, it doesn’t get much better than this…

Nagin dj remix mp3 free download app. The texture of this tone is very intensive, lending an edge to the TubeMeister Deluxe 20 and 40 that makes them sound a lot louder than their 18/36-watt forebears, the TubeMeister 18 and TubeMeister 36.

They certainly pack a bigger punch than the added two and four watts, respectively, would account for.

A clear tonal upgrade

In any event, we’re talking about much more than just an upgrade here.

Mikroc pro for pic

There’s something special going on inside these housings, and you can hear it as soon as you power up, plug in, and wail away.

They’re deliciously responsive to your picking attack and give you loads of dynamic range. And this response is very musical, with just enough natural compression to sound and feel good. Again, these amps come across as bigger, beefier and bolder.

Add a little zest to your guitar tone

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound Problems

In TubeMeister Deluxe, this boost can’t just be down to the nominal increase of two or four watts of power – so it has to be this circuit that’s adding the extra assertiveness.

The Hughes & Kettner TubeMeister Deluxe 20 and Deluxe 40. Cathode follower? Check. The Deluxe amps mix the best of traditional tube tones with state-of-the-art technical features, making your life as a guitar player more fun, easier – and better sounding – than ever before!

The zesty flavor of tone the cathode follower delivers results in an amp that’s a pretty awesome combination of old and new – a time-tested guitar amplifier circuit, the cathode follower, paired with a tube-driven power amp, a power soak and the game-changing Red Box AE.

6sn7 Guitar Amp

And that makes up a very solid FRFR package indeed (read all about the benfits of FRFR – that’s full range flat response – here). Take a bow, designers!

Classic tube tone, cooked up with the finest ingredients and the tastiest traditional recipes, all ready to go right out of the box: 21st century amps like these truly are a crossroads where tradition and modern-day innovation converge; where the cathode follower and FRFR coexist in the happiest of unions.

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound Kit

Are you bothered about whether your amp has a cathode follower? Does the technology behind guitar tone matter to you? We’d love to know, so let us know in the comments below… Because there’s plenty more tech talk like this to come from us if you want it!

Edit: 17 March 2016

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sound Bar

We got such cool and interesting feedback on this blog that we decided we’d take the time to explain the evolution from the TubeMeister 18 – which doesn’t feature a cathode follower – to the TubeMeister Deluxe 20 – which does! Just click on this beautiful picture below to read our little TubeMeister 18 to TubeMeister Deluxe 20 case study:

Guitar Amp 6sn7 Sounds

First published: March 04 2016. Most recent update: March 17 2016.